England 3 lions, you know something, i think you are dead right, it should have happened 10 year ago, the reason why i say this is because of all the expansion going on at the moment, now heres why i have taken another look at what you have said.= We have so much competition with all codes i really think it is going to end up as heartacke in the end? 

By this i mean if you look at rugby union, they are in the best possible senario, one team one city? This creates a following for the whole city, so what they dont get 50 thousand followers, eventually they might? And the other codes with more than four teams for a big city will struggle, because of the other compititions?  Now saying this i still think it is only a state of who!!!  would have thought that this would happen? Nobody.!

We need to face facts but i still think the game around the heartlands will survive for a bit longer but finally have to merge, or whatever they come up with??

If you are losing fans on the ground then your club suffers? Having said this we dont know what is around the corner,,, maybe this world cup might be the cattalist that we are looking for, who knows, i just love the comp at the moment, you could not drag me away with a backhoe at the moment. It's good and its growing, we need to expand the major cities as in perth and aderlaide and coast to coast, see this is why brisbane does so well, one team one city.

And this is why i relooked at what you have said, but i do think sydney can support 4,, and brisbane 3,, one in middle 2 either side, but you are dead right, but we cant turn back time? We will have to struggle with sydney into the future, and loss support again, well hopefully not by then, we might have kicked up a cog, with greater presense overseas?

Druzik? i just hope england takes a leaf out of sydneys book and melbourne also , if you have lots of teams like they do then you will suffer in the long run,

I never would want hull to join, but they are on oppisite sides of the river, so thats good compitition for them, but if they have any more clubs in around the ones they already have, then eventually they will suffer? They need to at least put a team in from wales, and get another in france, this will build the comp in france quicker and then they will be able to think about having there own league comp after growth, when they do england can expand a bit further in the london area? allow for this growth, believe me it will happen?

I see what you're saying oikee, thinking about it, it can't stay at the current 9 sydney teams in a 16/18/20 team comp. I mean think down the track 50 years, does anyone expect to still have 9 sydney clubs. What you are saying is right, it will have to happen some time. I think the ideal format would be; 5 sydney based teams, Newcastle, Central Coast, North Queensland, CQ, Sunny Coast, Brisbane, Ipswich Logan, GC, 2 Victorian Teams, Perth/WA, Adelaide/SA, Darwin/NT. By my count thats 18, it think wellington should be put into the NRL, only however until League gains enough popularity through these 2 teams that it can remove them from the NRL and put them in a revamped NZ comp with other teams. The money made by the 2 clubs over the years should be saved and used to assist the launching of a high-profile, high-profit NZ based comp.

oikee:

Druzik? i just hope england takes a leaf out of sydneys book and melbourne also , if you have lots of teams like they do then you will suffer in the long run,

I never would want hull to join, but they are on oppisite sides of the river, so thats good compitition for them, but if they have any more clubs in around the ones they already have, then eventually they will suffer? They need to at least put a team in from wales, and get another in france, this will build the comp in france quicker and then they will be able to think about having there own league comp after growth, when they do england can expand a bit further in the london area? allow for this growth, believe me it will happen?

I think most of the english clubs in ESL and N1&2 have a long history and a solid support base. When you think about it, england is pretty small, i heard it would take a maximum 7 hours to drive from one side to the other. So take into account that there are propably 30+ english clubs based in the samll country. So basically everyone in england is not ffar from a ESL, NL1 or NL2 club. As for france i agree with you, infact i basically just said the same thing about NZ before i read your last post. The French Elite 1 is a pro comp and is up there with NL1 standards from what i've heard. If this can continue to be promoted than the french will soon not need any teams in SL sine they have a comp to rival SL themselfs and catalans and toulouse (providing they make SL) can just switch from ELS to FE1.

Catalan and Toulouse (if they make it) still have their reserve teams in the Elite. UTC is effectively the feeder for Cataland, however its not exclusive. the Catalans polayers when not in the ESL go to their respective french teams. Toulouse will still have Olympique.

Yeah england does have many teams in a small region. Thoughthe SL and NL comps are pro, there are many other semi pro teams around as well. Look the Hull teams being on opposite sides of the river is exactly the same as the Dragons Sharks. The sth side of the Georges river is Shark country and nth side is shark bait... I mean Dragon country.

Anyway I think there are one or two other NL teams in Hull as well, so certainly there wa sscope to have 3 hull teams in the past. With the new Franchise system be interesting to see what happens. But certainly the Hull derby's are something special from what I hear.

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its interesting u suggested the possibility of PNG i would also like to see the nrl go one step further and maybe ad a pacific nations side if this world cup is successful for the sides mentioned then maybe act now and in 5 to 10yrs time. im all for expansion but must be done right what i would like 2 see is less rounds more international games there was an artical i read about the possibility of france in the tri serious now thats good progress sure lop sided scores maybe but u have 2 start some where I look at thie years world cup and 2 more teams should have been added USA and RUSSIA all keen on rugby league I guess i just love this game, NZL could have another team added in the NRL 2 but PNG would be my first option every man and his dog play rugby league there just a little support from us any way my first post 2 so gday 2 everyone..............

 

dragon1:

its interesting u suggested the possibility of PNG i would also like to see the nrl go one step further and maybe ad a pacific nations side if this world cup is successful for the sides mentioned then maybe act now and in 5 to 10yrs time. im all for expansion but must be done right what i would like 2 see is less rounds more international games there was an artical i read about the possibility of france in the tri serious now thats good progress sure lop sided scores maybe but u have 2 start some where I look at thie years world cup and 2 more teams should have been added USA and RUSSIA all keen on rugby league I guess i just love this game, NZL could have another team added in the NRL 2 but PNG would be my first option every man and his dog play rugby league there just a little support from us any way my first post 2 so gday 2 everyone..............

 

Well dragon what you are saying is good in theory but there would be several complications. I'll start on the PNG team in the NRL. I don't think this is a good idea, for one PNG already has a highly popular and high quality competition in their own back yard, the comp attracts good crowds and has some good p[layers in there. The PNG team that drew with Australian PMXIII last year was all SP Cup players, no exiles playing in SL or NRL. Also there was a PNG exiles V PNG natives game last year which is bassically PNG players playing away from home V PNG p[layers playing in PNG, the score was 25-24 i cant remember who won but it was tight as you can see. Now what would happen if you put an NRL team in PNG, i'd say it would kill of the local comp much like the warriors have done to the Bartercard Cup in NZ. Also PNG isn't the safest of places to play RL. I remember seeing a PMXIII game a couple of years ago and there were barbed wire fences to protect from the crowd, also there is a fair bit of disease over there. Can you imagine the highly paid NRL players of today wanting to play in those circumstances? i doubt many would.

Now onto France joining an extended tri series next year. I believe this is pretty much set in stone, i think france are waiting to see how well they do in the WC before commiting but i think it should happen. now you say there would be lopsided scored if freance entered but i dont think it would be bad, france have proven they are up to standard last year with a hard fought loss to GB and losing in the dying stages to NZ. Now france is rebuilding well on the back of catalans dragons in SL and Elite which is frances home comp and is easily the 3rd best in the world behind SL and NRL. Check out a dragons game and there is alot of good young french talent. Also Toulouse have placed a bid to be the 2nd french SL club in 2009, now if this goes ahead the game should grow even faster and i would say in 5 years france will be equal with england and NZ.

You say Russia and USA should have been in the WC, well they had their chance they didnt qualify. I admit the day USA and/or Russia make the WC it will be great because these 2 countries are 2 real targets for RL growth IMO. Now russia failed to win a game against lebanon or ireland, matter of fact got flogged both times and USA lost to Samoa in the repecharge SF 42-10. So i see what you're saying it would have been nice but the stone cold fact is they weren't good enough this time. Hopefully League can continue to promote the game well in USA and Russia and come 2013 they will make the WC, ATM however we want the best 10 teams in the WC and i think we have that. Wales and Lebanon were unlucky to miss out, but especially in Wales' case they could not get it done on the field, IMO they had the best team in europe behind france and england but they still couldnt get the job done so they only have themselfs to blame really. Wales have Celtic Crusaders pushing for a spot in SL next year so that would help the game grow over there, also i hear SA are nearly confirmed to be hosting a welsh tour in 2009, great news for both parties.

G'day dragon, yes jim just about summed it up, but we have to start somewhere and this world cup has enough right ingredients to make it a spectacle which is what league needs. I agree with you about america and russia, but they will get there chance in the next cup, they are going to be better off by then with improved teams. As for lebanon and wales, they will be there for sure next cup, new quinea dont want to go down the same path as new zealand, by keeping there comp alive, they benifit,

Just on the pacific nations, i see shane webke getting involved with them, they have lots of players in the n.r.l and super league so they get more than enough help in this area. Its hard to do much more without losing money, the n.r.l can help but they do contribute a lot to the islands, as do new zealand and aussie governments? At least they have something to play for, no other sport helps them?

well thx for ur reply guys i see ur point but there is still a little more that can be done right now i see the oppotunity to help PNG and the pacific sides. maybe more test footy may be a way yes security is a problem but i see a nation (PNG) as reaching out for help i know the world cup hasnt been played yet and who knows they could make the finals in there group but im trying 2 say is not enough test footy is been played maybe i just like the game 2 much lol i was just talking 2 my mate the other day about players from other countrys playing in the NRL and SL especially from the pacific sides born in samoa but has 2 play for NZ because we are not playing enough against teams such as fiji, tonga, samoa do u see my point now this aint a easy fix i know that but if the ARL grabs this world cup by the scruff of its neck and acts on it rugby league wont be a dieing sport.U r right about the USA and RUSSIA there chance will come thx for ur reply guys

dragon

I think test footy is the way to go Dragon1, if the PI's and for that matter european countries could get atleast 3 games of test RL a year then this would help them in so many ways. The more games a country gets the better its players will be and for PI's case in particular the more likely they are to get the players who are eligable.

Also mate i couldnt help but notice that you called RL a dying sport, certainly isnt the case. RL is growing well around the world from australia and england to places like estonia and czech republic. League is gaining strides in moist countries it is being played. For example germany, italy and a few more have started domestic comps within the last 2 years, RL in south africa is coming along nicely, wales are rumoured to tour SA next year and that would be huge for SARL. Its small things like this that let you know that league is doing well.

Well the great news is that the European are doing just that. They have this multi tier system now where team can get promoted up and down and play other teams that are upto their strengths. They get to play about 3 games a year which is good. as far as I am aware the tiers at the moment are

England/France/Wales/Ireland/Scotland

Russia/Lebanon/Serbia

Germany/Italy/Czechs

Estonia/Latvia/Ukraine

These are the home grown countries at the moment. I am not sure how countries like Malta and Greece and Morocco are fittingt into this, but with Serbia playing Morocco just s few weeks ago abviously there is no probelm with them having games agaisnt each other.

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i actually meant rl a dieing sport in iternationaly but in saying that the last few years for rughby league has been huge as long as help the smaller nations devlop now thx jim.

and while where on the exspansion side of things not quiet yet but in the future maybe one more in QLD and then look towards WA or SA 5yrs plus.

Yer Dragon, i myself are thinking that maybe queensland has got enough? if we do have expansion, and because of the stupid rules wanting more teams in there game, we might have to go perth and aderlaide, so if we do they will need feeder clubs, and the brisbane and sunshine coast plus others can help out, rather than having another team in queensland and fighting over more talent. Just my thought. Hope gallop realises this and does not just plonk another team in brisbane, we have some of the best rivalry now with cowboys titans and broncos, not saying another team would harm this but we do need to help the other states?

Dragon , i do think that we will become a 20 team comp. Weather we have all the teams in sydney is yet to be seen. Depends on the marketing.

The titans are the new milestone that new teams have to look at if they are to succeed. I really think ipswich is a definate and also the sunshine coast. Now that being 5 queensland teams.

Perth and Aderlaide are definates, have to be there and did not crumble last time but were taken out of the comp. So they can come back.

So thats 20 teams, now if we have to pull back on teams in sydney then we should build up the central coast and another team in new zealand. Eventually, Give them time to have the game strong before any attempt be made to include. Have a look at the welsh team trying to get into the super league, crowd support 350, this is not how to grow, you need crowds of 10 thousand or more before you should even get a look in. Like the sunshine coast are getting?

Druzik:

Well the great news is that the European are doing just that. They have this multi tier system now where team can get promoted up and down and play other teams that are upto their strengths. They get to play about 3 games a year which is good. as far as I am aware the tiers at the moment are

England/France/Wales/Ireland/Scotland

Russia/Lebanon/Serbia

Germany/Italy/Czechs

Estonia/Latvia/Ukraine

These are the home grown countries at the moment. I am not sure how countries like Malta and Greece and Morocco are fittingt into this, but with Serbia playing Morocco just s few weeks ago abviously there is no probelm with them having games agaisnt each other.

Great set-up, does this work on a promotion/relegation system? Does this mean if Russia win they can get into the top tier somehow? or is it only the 3 bottom tiers that relegation/promotion is used for?

So malta, greece and morocco arn't in this system because they dont have domestic comps? is that right?